The Vain Man with Eliot Rahal and Emily Pearson (2023)

Interview with Eliot Rahal and Emily Pearson

[00:00:00]Jeff:listeners. Let's drag our country into today's show. We had the amazing Emily Pearson and the amazing Elliot Ray Hall. How are we guys?

Eliot Rehal:do it right jeff

Jeff:Are we okay Emily?

Emily Pearson:I'm not sure at this time.

Jeff:So things are a bit strange in the world right now. you are distracted? Can you focus on what you are supposed to do?

Eliot Rehal:You know, Tuesday through Wednesday it was pretty useless. And then on Thursday, I'm climbing, I'm trying to get back on the train, you know?

And yeah, I guess I'm just, you know, just trying to keep myself busy. I, I, I am, I am a really manic person. You know it's a struggle for me Like my highest gets real high. And then I almost want to jump out of my skin, so sometimes it can be a challenge

Jeff:I can imagine. And you, Emily?

How are we, friend? How do you deal [00:01:00] with all this?

Emily Pearson:Honestly, as I have, I have a chronic illness to deal with at the moment. Well, I mean, I took medication for this on a Wednesday, and I basically sleep through Thursday. So I was lucky in that regard.

Eliot Rehal:You haven't missed much. It is still possible.

Jeff:I hope, I hope you're okay. And is there something serious?

Emily Pearson:A bit. I'll be fine.

Jeff:Well, I certainly hope so.

Emily Pearson:Y.

Eliot Rehal:I'm glad to hear that. You're fine Emily.

Jeff:Yes. Like I said yes, definitely. I hope you're definitely feeling better and the meds aren't affecting you too much now.

Emily Pearson:It should be fine. Me, I woke up a little early to get ready.


Eliot Rehal:I have, I have enough chaotic power support.

Jeff:I can start with you, Elliot, with the first question. How long have you wanted to be a comic book writer? Do you remember what he read when he was a child?

[00:02:00]Eliot Rehal:Oh shit.

I didn't know, I didn't know. He wanted to be a chemist until he was twenty, I think. I'm 32 now. So I figured this out pretty late. I knew he wanted to write and create and do things, you know, he just wanted to. I never really understood that I could write comics. On the right. No. And then I didn't read comics growing up.

I read a lot of fantasy and science fiction. I started reading comics in high school, so I read comics junior year, so senior year, and I, I started consuming them, and I, and I didn't start, you know, to hold my hand until you know, I was in my late 22's, you know, and then and then I'd say I didn't really double it until I was around twenty-five, which is when I like to stop everything and everything.

And then


Eliot Rehal:I've only done horrible jobs and pursued this career that no one in my family [00:03:00] understands.

Jeff:So, I mean, the question that I think publishers are always trying to figure out is how to get new readers to buy comics. So you started shopping, you said, when you were 18 or older.

So what made you finally say I'm going to start buying them?

Eliot Rehal:You know I had a good friend. You know, I mean, really for me it came down to friendship and stuff, I've always been interested in the medium, but the problem, the main problem with the medium is that there are many, many barriers.

There's a lot of control in the sense that walking into a comic book store is very intimidating. You don't know where to start. You know the publishers, you know certain old publishers. You know, it makes it hard to like it, to know when to start, and then there's all this pressure and you have to know all these things.

So, you know, it's just intimidating. On the right. You know, it feels like you're entering a very, very, very big world and [00:04:00] you don't know how to navigate it. So I would say. That was my biggest dead addiction. You know there isn't a specialty store in my hometown or find out until there is one in the suburbs next door, but you know me, one of my best friends threw my wedding. movies and comics and we would go to the comic book store together every week or every chance and you know that really means having a partner really helped me.

What can publishers do? You know, make it easy for people, I'd say. And I mean the focus on keeping it simple and accessible and focusing on ways that they can do retail sales and outreach that people invite, but then also directly from probably publishers or [00:05:00] consumer material would probably help with it's.

I'm always a sucker for websites, keep it easy and make it mining. And, and, and, don't hang up. In, I think, arbitrary inheritance, I think, you know, that's what I think, alienated. Especially new readers, you know, younger people, especially Gen Z. I know a lot of Gen Z kids, my little brother's aggressive kids.

And that's right, when something is so heavy and complicated and full of fucking neurons that will actually bunch up to death, they don't want to deal with it. And frankly, why should they?

Jeff:I agree. Do you think it would help big publishers to have a page like an inside front cover page beforehand?

Is this like Batman before and like a final story breakdown to help them out? Or what do you think he would not bring anything?

Eliot Rehal:Do you like a summary page?


Eliot Rehal:Me, I think I've always appreciated [00:06:00] comics, you know I've always appreciated when he flips through them. I thought they still made them.

I even went to a store or just went to the store, but I don't really buy a lot of Big Two stuff right now, other than DC Black Label and the immortal deadly Hulk, you know,

Jeff:Yeah, I don't usually see a lot of these kinds of flashbacks. What about you, Emilio?

What was the first, when did you know you wanted to be a comic book artist and what was your breakthrough in the industry? At least in the world of comics?

Emily Pearson:I think I want to make art. I don't know, they were 14 or something. And then over the next few years of high school, I started reading comics, and it made me want to do that more.

I think I actually started working on comics, it didn't really happen until I was maybe 2020 or something. I don't remember 19 or 20. I started working [00:07:00] on The Wilds, which was my first full comic. And it was really nice that I liked it, I don't know. It is nice. It was nice to be involved with Vena as Pete is a very nice person to work with and very considerate and helpful.

So it was a very good experience for me.

Eliot Rehal:So

Jeff:What do you remember from your previous comics or did you buy comics when you were later a teenager?

Emily Pearson:I guess when I was in high school I didn't read a lot of things in order, except maybe Saga or something.

It was too much

Eliot Rehal:School.

Emily Pearson:I'm 24 years old

Jeff:I am 40 years old. So yeah, I just bought my walker. after you said that

Yes. You just realized that ARP is now knocking on your door.

So you bought a series.

Emily Pearson:You said. [00:08:00] Yes. And fables and such. It was, I was kind of into it, more, I don't know, like the fantasy stuff in independent comics, so yeah.

Jeff:Emily, did you go to art school or are you self-taught?

Emily Pearson:I didn't go, yeah I'm self-taught. I think I've started.

I tried to pursue art full time when I graduated high school and it took me a few years to get to the point where I was able to do it.

Jeff:So when did they know, when did they both know that they had made it in the industry? Was there a point where you said okay, I've arrived?

Eliot Rehal:My God, did I make it?

Jeff:Well, you're just talking to talk to me.

So you know this is just a joke.

Eliot Rehal:Do you know that I am very lucky and very blessed that people constantly like, reply and post to my emails and I feel more confident? Yes. But you know, is there a feeling of achieving it or feeling good about something? That's not the kind of person I am.

So this is a personal mental health struggle for me. So yes I do. I feel. I realize that things are better than when they started. But of course you know I don't feel that feeling. And besides, there is still a lot to do and what I want to do. so you know

Jeff:What about you, Emilio? Is there a point where you feel like maybe you've arrived or, you know, are you now?

Really a combined artist, you know, you're, you know, one of the, you know, little circle of comic book artists that's right in the world.

Emily Pearson:Now. It's hard to say because I feel like I don't know if I would classify it, it's like doing it or something, but I started to feel a lot more confident when I was doing comics full time.

And I think something like that. You know, [00:10:00] even if you have imposter syndrome, what you're going through, like, oh, I don't feel like I'm ready for this. It's just, okay, well, I get paid and I have to keep going anyway. Know? Then yes. I, I, I don't feel like I've gotten to a point where I've made it as a com-booker or anything.

I feel like. It's probably very relative to every person you know who's into comics.

Jeff:Do you both feel like this seemed like a common thread among successful artists? It is the feeling that you are not there yet. Really successful. You know what I mean? It feels like every artist, I know a writer who never gets it right, feels like they've already made it.

You always feel that there is still a need, that there is still room for improvement. You have never mastered the craft. Do you think it's a common theme among people achieving goals in comics?

Eliot Rehal:I [00:11:00] that's a very charged thing. You just said that I have many opinions. And I think a lot of that has to do personally with capitalism and the nature of what we have.

On the right. And the notion, when will I feel fulfilled?

Jeff:On the right?

Eliot Rehal:As a race it will never fill you up because we do our races by ourselves. The way we did our jobs, the jobs didn't make us. On the right. So inevitably, you know, if you go after the idol-based realization you've created of yourself and put all your strength and energy into it, you'll never get it because it's never going to pay you back for it. it is by definition incapable of doing so.

That being said, yes, there is also a degree of dissatisfaction. And again, you know not to be too weird. [00:12:00] I'm having a hard time, you know, loving who I am as a person. On the right. And so, that's a big problem for me. And like, it's like, it's as bad as a constant fight.

So there's a lot of different factors that come into play, but you know, and I don't think you'll ever be able to master the trade because there seems to be no trade. The only way to master is to try your hardest, right? I don't think there is such a thing as a master craftsman. As I think you know, because that suggests that the craft is finite and the thing is, it can't be the way you want it to be.

It can evolve. And of course how that keeps changing, you know, Neil Gaiman and stuff, you know, you know, you too, and people like that are amazing cop-level creators, but I don't know right now. I'm talking random. , so I do not know

Jeff:absolutely fine. I will say [00:13:00] One thing that I struggle with, with my own writing on the very small Chromebooks that I work on, is that I have trouble reading and enjoying my own work.

You can find one that you can enjoy your work and read and get or find When you read what you are what you have done. You find yourself like the little bugs and it is difficult for you. You think: oh, I should have done that. Maybe I could have done a little better or just parted ways and enjoyed what you did because this is for both of us.

Eliot Rehal:I view my part of the job very critically. On the right. But you know, I like to look at Emily's work because it's a whole different part of the process. And that is what I enjoy the most. And like, there are moments of drawing that I write, don't get me wrong. And those, those moments mostly come from problem solving and being smart.

I really enjoy it, but the real joy I get is when. You know, you give the ball to your partner and, and, [00:14:00] and they come at you with their energy and their boundless creativity, which, you know, I mean, I am, I am, I am like this. So happy to have worked with Emily because she's an artist I've never worked with before and and and and I and I'm enjoying that and I think it's a disservice to your co-creator if you don't enjoy the work and effort they're putting in.

Jeff:So can you expand on that? What do you mean when you say that he is an artist as if he had never worked with manual labor. Can you expand on that as an idea of ​​what's going on with regards to Emily?

Eliot Rehal:and she says hey you know her work is very good. Nice and fancy and like, and you know, and it's like that, it's kind of like something that's non-traditional, in a good way.

I mean, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and so, and, and, and so, and, and, and so that you're writing to build those strengths for your partner, and, and, and that helped inform part of how I set the tone for our book. [00:15:00] And, you know, but like them, you know, I mean I've worked with a lot of traditional artists. I've worked with a lot of people who have worked in a lot of different areas, like surreal spaces and how she approaches comics and she likes it.

There are no giveaways and everything is just so pretty. And I've learned that sometimes you just want to look at something beautiful. and it's nice

Jeff:What about you Emilio? Same question about: do you enjoy your work or are you very critical of what you have produced?

Emily Pearson:I, honestly, am quite critical with most of the things I do.

I think it's hard with that. Comics, especially since they're working on something for about, you know, no matter how long the project takes five to six months and then comes out about a year later. And you go, oh, I don't want, I don't want people to see that.

So it's definitely harder. Flashback, but I guess the same topic, where [00:16:00] he was talking about how, you know, see, see the story together in the final book and then how to see Fred's colors and, you know, the the rest. after It's really nice to see a comic made by a whole group of people.

Because, you know, essentially, as an artist, I can do that. I got the most out of it, most of it as my own comic, but it's also a cool experience to have other people working with me. I don't know, just to put different people's ideas together in one


Eliot Rehal:On the right. It makes other people feel real to me, you know, I'm having a hard time with reality.

Sometimes. And you know, you rip out a script and send it out and then it comes back and it's like, oh, that's like a whole different person. That is incredible.

Jeff:It is. I will say from my own experience that it is a great feeling when art comes home, because whatever, because on the page are these words, these ideas, these.

[00:17:00] Intangible things suddenly have a tangible feel to have a tangible appearance. And when you finally have those pages, I think it's really the best feeling about doing a comic.

Eliot Rehal:I disagree. it is destructive. We do something like someone and yes.

Jeff:Where did the idea come from? So where did Bain's idea for Oni presses come from? What did you work on together?

Eliot Rehal:On the right. Wait a second.

I think my cat wants to shit.

Jeff:That seems fine to me.

Eliot Rehal:yes no So the vein, you know, it sounds like fun and I don't want to be flippant about it, but it's like a lot of my job. It starts as a joke. On the right? Because I firmly believe that jokes are stories. Like it was said there very simply and Mike, but they have a purpose and like, you know, like, you know, for example, how I wrote a book called Hot Lunch, special EA, not Lunch Spreader.

What is it? You know, the joke in my head was, wouldn't that be funny? [00:18:00] You know how a lot of people took sand, which is really serious and like that, and then I extrapolated from there. On the right. So that's, I mean, and. Davina came from a joke. Like one day I ate popsicles and I, and I, there's a joke about one of my popsicles in the classic.

What is a, what is a vampire's favorite bank? And it was like a blood bank. On the right. And I thought, oh, that's what if... Like a blood bank, stealing vampires. Alright. And then I like, and then I started really thinking about it and thinking about these characters and thinking about it, as an extrapolation, it's like, you know what I mean, taking it very, very seriously, right?

Like it starts out as a fun little idea, but you know, the whole book, though I think it's fun and kind of wild and free, and that's why it was. [00:19:00] So I want to work with Emily, who is working in nature. But you know, it's also like, it's getting really serious and it's like talking about it, it's like nihilistic freedom and I'm talking about obsession and all that stuff.

So, you know, it can seem like a joke is like a simple concept that helps me understand it, you know?

Jeff:So how did it go? Were you the one who contacted Emily first or did Emily say she hey let's do something you want to work on? So who approached whom first?

Eliot Rehal:I think that is up for debate here. And of course I know that I have always loved Emily's work. And you know, I remember we talked once and I forget who started it, but she was nice enough to say, "Hey, I want to work with you." And I was like, great, give me a week to figure something out.

And then, you know, we were like [00:20:00] on our way to the races there.

Jeff:So Emily, do you remember what the game was when you fell or what was your first thought when you heard the story about the free game?

Emily Pearson:Yeah, I generally can't, I think we got a call after Ellie gave me the general, you know, like Team Empires, Robin, Robin Blanks.

And it goes through a period of about eight years or so. I think we had a phone call and you broke it all down, you know, how he wanted the comment, how he wanted the comment to feel, and what was the tone he wanted it to be, which was really cool, I mean, you know, it's so funny, like an exaggerated, you know, vampire story.

Yes, it's difficult. Because it was like that, I think it was a year ago that we were talking about. do things. So it's hard to keep it on my mind when we're all having these conversations.

Eliot Rehal:It was a while ago. You know, and like I did, I said for the record [00:21:00] we have to make attractive vampires, Emily.

We make hot young vampires. Sexy forever makes me feel like an even bigger monster. At that time 22 years old and no idea. The way the press works is that a lot of comic companies have those, you know, three full issues done before they even think about publishing any material.

And then also, you know, that's what we had to do, we had to get to that point and then also the press had a big change, you know, there was a big change, you know, with them on line four, which caused it. You know, just some infrastructure delays. So the whole series was essentially finished before we even announced it.

And you know, this idea has really been living in our heads for over, I would say a year and a half, almost two years.

Jeff:So, I feel [00:22:00] that I was really doing the combo like you guys did, in other words, I'm going to do another three or four numbers before I'm on the owner press, I'll drop it.

That's quite a leap of faith for both of them, I imagine. How sure were you that if it was a good leap of faith, it would be successful?

Eliot Rehal:Oh, I'm afraid to answer, ask for this answer. I'm never sure. I'm just going for that. I actually like it, I felt like, you know, yeah. I've really taken the time to think about something like, I wouldn't and I don't have a nervous breakdown, you know, and I'm not saying it's not thoughtful.

I'm just saying that at a certain point, when you get an opportunity, you have to take it. And you know, my opportunity at the beginning of this report was to work with Emily, right? This is an opportunity that as a writer, as who he is, I cannot pass up. As good as a [00:23:00] creator, artist, Emily acts like someone like that comes up to you and you have the time and ability to work with them, like you have to try.

And then how, and then when you offer a job, you know you don't have a choice. Dignity, you know, it's my job. As it sounds, I know what I'm talking about. I look, I look white, so it's like, you know, I mean everybody, I mean it's not that hard to sound confident. On the right. You know, well, you know, but I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

Like me, I am constantly out of control.

Jeff:So what about you? Emily was Al positive. Did you feel like this was something she would find, or were you sure it was up to you to work on it, put in the time, and it would work out?

Emily Pearson:Well, I honestly think when it comes to how, how, if you like it, [00:24:00] you know, just harping on how, okay, we're going to take this book and put it out there.

That is where most of my fears end. I feel like. If you have publisher support and they have agreed to pay. It's like, okay, well, I have a lot less to worry about. And then you know, I'm not sure if I've only worked on three books or four and only three of them are out now.

So the thing is, I don't have a lot of experience with: oh, this book is going to flop, or this one is going to work really well. It's a much newer experience for me in that sense. Because it takes so long to draw the book as an artist, I'm sure Elliot has tons of projects that he's working on and I'm like, okay, I have to do one book at a time.

Jeff:So the artwork in this book is really huge. How did you develop the visual style of this book and how much research did you do into [00:25:00] the first edition in 1941? Chicago Look Styles. In preparation for it

Emily Pearson:book Honestly, I just search Pinterest for a lot of different trendy things, google images for that.

I think I really like trying to design things. So I think the material is more of what I want to draw and what I need to draw. Because I know there are some artists who like to hate it when Fitz doesn't have character ideas and stuff. I'm cool with it. But yeah, I think otherwise it was easy.

I don't know. I think it's the style he's been developing for a while, like working on my other books. So I think it came quite naturally and ended up with a story that was a great fit.

Jeff:So I'm going to exit the conversation and say that Zoom seems to be shutting down and meeting for about five minutes.

In fact, I'm going to start over if you don't mind so we can talk some more. Alright? [00:26:00]

In order. Like I said, sadly it doesn't seem like I have the money to pay parents to upgrade to Pro to keep it working in a meeting. So, yeah, we're going to let it slide and then we're going to go in, but I'm going to ask my next question in the next five minutes. So like I said, I was able to read the first issue and I say I really enjoyed it.

And I really liked the love line. And I'll just read the line. He wanted to spare her any taste of dawn. That's how I can still taste it when I'm old. And it feels like a comic book theme, the idea of ​​enjoying every moment and also enjoying irony, especially at dawn, also for vampires, of course it hurts them.

So I was a bit angry. And for Elliot, where did the idea come from? Was that a way of encapsulating the theme of his story? Are you serious

Eliot Rehal:Yes. I think this line is from the FBI detective, if I'm not mistaken, I forgot. But yeah, there's something to that. I mean definitely the vampire-themed plan.

We also have irony in that statement, right? Because again, like we talked [00:27:00] before about success, and if you feel successful, like the whole arc. You know, and I'm trying not to give too much away, but you know, the book travels 80 years through time and you, and we follow a human character who's been possessed by these vampires his entire life.

And he misses his whole life. On the right. He is so focused. He still focuses his career on being a writer. He is so focused on her that he misses everything around him. That's good. And and, and, and so, there's a dramatic irony in that statement that it's everything and it's intended, right? And I, you know, there's a great Gatsby element.

The way I think about my father-in-law, my father always reaches out to me. He is always, always moving towards what is next. Whats Next? What can I achieve next? And there is something to admire. On the right? I certainly admire that kind of spirit, [00:28:00] but at the same time like you're never going to realize yourself, you know?

And that's why I try so hard and try. To focus on the things that are important, which are feelings, which are each other, which, you know, are my relationship with my wife. And that's, going back to the book, the most important thing, the most important thing, where our four vampires are, their relationships with each other, their friends, their lovers, and you know they're only complete when they're together. , good.

Jeff:For me, I think one thing I especially liked about the first issue was that it reminded me a little bit of the way the heat of the movie was generated, where you had the cop and the criminals and they both had their lives. they are set up perfectly for that comparison purpose where you have the cop.

And although he is in favor of the law, his family is falling apart, his whole life is dedicated to his work. Then you have the Robert and Arrow character, which. [00:29:00] There is more to life. It is dangerous. You could die at any moment, but at the same time he seems to be the one who really seems to be living. I had a bit of the same feeling when I read the first number in vain.

Eliot Rehal:On the right. That is a great comparison. I never thought about the heat, although I love this movie. Yes. But that's a very good comparison. Yeah.

Jeff:Hey, I think I'll pat myself on the back for that, but that's about it.

Eliot Rehal:TRUE. Detective series series. Yo

Jeff:I watched the first two seasons of it. A few, a few years.

Eliot Rehal:I've only seen the first season, but there's a similar dichotomy there where you have two characters.

They're both cops, right. One talks about which year Olson's character always talks about, how it all matters, and then Lincoln's Spokesman. What is his name? Matthew McConaughey always talks about how everything is like fennel. And what does it matter where the [00:30:00] acts exactly the opposite way?

On the right. Like Matthew McConaughey, he cares the most. Whereas Woody Harrelson is like, you know, cheating on his wife and ruining everything, the good life of him is like he's a TV set to do a big double on it, you know?

Jeff:So this is like the lies we tell ourselves, right? The lies we tell ourselves to get through the day.

It is usually the opposite of what we really want. In order. Well, Emily, well, Vene is optically very elegant again. And when you read it, the art really puts us in the time period. So when you do the art for this story for nothing, how much focus or can you put on the style and atmosphere of the story and how much do you have to focus on the character of the story?

You know what I mean?

Emily Pearson:Yeah. It's good, it is, I think it's worth any comment, but I think, you know, people always talk about comics. Artists are often like. [00:31:00] I mean, no character design environment like this, like designer and video quality and all these different things you have to learn.

I think there's, I think there's a balance with each comic. I think with the main one I wanted to specifically try to show more of the characters and make them fit into the setting wherever they were. I mean, going through each study pretty quickly, you know, there's something different

Eliot Rehal:Period

Emily Pearson:Production.

So it's less, I think there is more development that could be done with the characters and with the settings that they are.

Eliot Rehal:In.

Jeff:I think one of the things that really impressed me about the artwork, Emily, is that you can put so many emotions and facial expressions into each character.

There is even a moment. I also think that a song where the dog appears, and even the dog appears, seems to have its own personality. So, I think, I mean, I think there's a question around here somewhere, it's basically [00:32:00] how. Are you able to bring so much expression, emotion and characterization to your artwork and to every panel you make?

Emily Pearson:I just have to say that his drawing was the most fun.

Yes, I honestly think it's easy. I think the way I've heard the emotions is a little bit subtle because the realistic look that I'm doing for the bathroom makes me feel like I need to change a lot, like super exaggerated emotions and stuff have been like that. I liked doing more subtle things that you would see on someone's face.

when you talk to them And it's just, I don't know. It's easy, it's very easy, just change. Very special things like. The eyebrows that look a little bit more like someone's mouth, you know, I don't have any objective words on young Elliot, the spider [00:33:00] who purses his mouth more or something.

Jeff:Well, there are also many nuances. Like I said about the artwork and the touch of the facial expressions. Use as a reference photo? you are looking at yourself look in the mirror do you like raids like facial expressions to try to draw how you get so good at it?

Emily Pearson:It speaks to the fact that I love creating references, so I found out everything I could.

But sometimes you have to take your own problems. So it's a mix of everything.

Jeff:Well, I think one of the best moments, especially in the first issue, and it's not just a great moment, but a turning point for the story itself that comes on page 14 and that scene is incredibly graphic and so tonal. . Change in history, it's like like that.

It starts off kind of funny, but quickly, quickly turns a bit ominous. And that's when the juice has been lost in your mouth. And you see the Bret, you see the breath, the head exploding, some brain flying. And it's a, there's some gut feeling, it takes us like a tonal shift. How important [00:34:00] to the story is that impact for the reader and how important was laying the foundation?

If you didn't come after that at the time, but this is for both of you.

Eliot Rehal:You know, for me this is one of the most important panels in the series and in the first issue simply because that will be this book. It's like, you know, I wanted to like

No, I'm not trying to sound high and mighty. OK. Please forgive me. It's like we have a very diverse one. Group of characters and, and we started them in the 1940s, and that's what our vampire is known for. And how they are known for being free. And it's like these people, you know, probably, you know, that's not likely, they wouldn't have been able to live their lives to the fullest and stuff, and I wanted to create characters that were like, fuck you, you know?

And I mean, we're going to be [00:35:00] ourselves, like we're living. On the right. And as the freest character, the characters that lose the most are in deck. How I like that look. And then that too, as it also tries to tell the reader that I want to get ready to tune in on a dime whenever I feel like it.

On the right. And then, you know, with the Emory job. Again, I think it shows the juxtaposition. You know, you have these beautiful characters, beautiful designs and beautiful colors by Fred C that accentuate everything and are very painterly, you know, and then you write it down and you have that moment on the page.

And it's just brutal. And as, I remembered more, give me more depth.

And it gave him a chill, but it was, you know, it was fun to ask him if I could bring that to the table and it was fun to see [00:36:00] how he brought it, and my guy, and that was a treat for me too. But that's the way it is, you know, for me it shows the change, you know, it's like, this is going to be weird and fun and wild, you know?

Jeff:So what about you, Emily? How did you experience that moment in the comic?

Emily Pearson:Yeah, I was definitely surprised. I think there are like two that could come out a little bit, you come out with a little surprise like the one in the book, of course a little bit. But I mean, I think you would definitely like it.

For example, if you read the comic and want to read up to this point, I think that's the point where you definitely understand loss as a character a lot more. As if only his personality was on display. I like it a lot, I think it is. It's really cool that Elliot showed that through a moment like this instead of some kind of revealing backstory, or is it an early flashback [00:37:00] or something?

I think it is much more effective.

Jeff:I do not totally agree. I never. Like old exhibition dumps. When I have failed, they are always the weakest writing tool, the expert display dump. And I think they both did a fantastic job of creating that moment where you have a lot of characterizations in literally one action space.

I think it was great. And that scene with the bench is once a great scene, punishment, grim loss, and fanny, and it's a moment that goes way beyond that moment. It was going to be a very deep, violent moment, a non-violent moment. And I've always wanted, and wondered as I read it, is it because vampires aren't inherently evil, or is it because it was a calculated decision to limit the heat?

Because I didn't talk about the heat of the movie. There's a moment where I figured out the guy's name, but he shoots the guards and Robert de Niro's character yells at him. He says if you do this now, he's crazy. Instead of just a bank robbery, he adds a layer of heat and pressure to them.

[00:38:00] Was it your opinion when you filmed this scene to show her inherently benevolent nature or was it a calculated decision for her? To not go so deep, to go this way?

Eliot Rehal:You know it's more of a calculated decision for them as characters, right? Just like the people they like to address.

You know we watch die, you know I choose carefully that they're okay. like it's okay. Not that it's okay to kill someone, but how, you know, how structurally, and then how, but yeah, it's a hot thing. They're strategists, they're like neutral evil, you know what I mean? Like, and apparently they're not going to try to murder anyone, but, you know, as the series goes on, you know, that's it.

That's the change where things get out of hand, like [00:39:00] any new or traditional crime story, like, you know, criminals have their code and they're trying to abide by it. And that's why they make good criminals, as long as they stick to their code. But once the things you know get a little uncontrollable, you know that once they lose their mantle, they lose control.

And once they lose control, they lose, right? As if the only thing that mattered to them was control and strategy. And how it's all, you know, especially as we get further into the series, like the modern world is catching up with them and they're holding up well. So it's like they can't afford heating.

On the right. Cause they just can't, it's too fast now, you

Jeff:knowledge? Yeah. I mean, I think you create an amazing character, and I think another interesting development is revealed in the first issue that is worth talking about about Fannie and Laws, at least for, but [00:40:00] definitely lesbians in this first number during a time when they are not would not be accepted in society.

So, and the way I looked at it, it was almost like it was almost a metaphor. The notion that they live in the shadows, that some of their light must exist in the shadows, in Norton, normal society, just like vampirism is an existence that must be in the shadows. We do it as a metaphor for having to live like this outside of society.

Or at least apparently not at the time.

Eliot Rehal:There's such a thing as, you know, the skill grenade, just like what vampirism allows them to do. I think the power to move freely, how open, but at the same time they are still, they still can't give away that they are vampires. they can not

So yeah, there's definitely a mix in mine, you know, and I, you know, again, I'm trying to be very nice. I'm not trying to take anybody's stories like, you know, and like, I, I hear a lot of concern about that. Because I don't want to like [00:41:00]. You know, reaping the harvest of the LGBTQ-plus community, but as if they were vampires too.

They will fuck each other.

As if I had to do anything else, it would have been like a vampire book without the sex. As

Jeff:What the hell is that? But I like that. I mean, I think there was, I think, another level keeping these characters in a game, once again. Once again it gives us an idea of ​​its existence. gave us And I think again that it's good to be in a book like this too.

Again, this is not often discussed in many of the mainstream media.

Eliot Rehal:don't worry. Yeah. I mean, I try, I mean, I, you know, again, I'm not an expert on this, as I have a great editorial help that has helped me very gracefully and, and the people who help me, I Last thing I wanted, you know, when you talk about fear as if her biggest fear was [00:42:00] that I would hurt someone emotionally, you know, with my job.

I don't want to, you know, I didn't address it. Resist something, you know, unethical or inappropriate. And that keeps me up at night. If I'm completely honest with you. Ah, but I would like to have a great team and people to help me along the way again. And I can get away with it.

Jeff:Well I found it very well handled.

I mean it was handled, I think there was some sensitivity and I think. She didn't, it didn't feel like the right word for it. He didn't feel forced. He felt like a natural relationship. And at the time, and I think, in my opinion, it was handled well, very well. And the other,

Like I said, it was just my 2 cents. For what this is worth, which seems to me to be probably 2 cents. Anyway, the other thing I've found is that I do find the story amusing and it will lead me to dealing with the Nazis, and again I find it interesting, the 1940s idea of ​​dealing with the Nazis. Nazis and the fact that we're still in 2020 and still dealing with Nazis.

[00:43:00] Yeah, it definitely is. That was part of it, in your mind, like, hey, I'm writing this story about Ford, where are the Nazis and. Well, there's one that's on TV right now. Let me tell you, was it something you were thinking about when you produced that

Eliot Rehal:Maybe I think about the Nazis too often because they keep me up at night.

The Nazis were 19, you know, the book starts in 1940. Right. And, and, and I was concerned, even with Wilkerson 1941, that people would know where this was going. And I was pleased to find that they didn't know it was going to go and go. That made me happy, because when I read something like that and I think, oh, and they're going to send them to World War II.

That's the obvious thing that's going to happen. But you know, I put them in there because he's another good villain to kill, like the Nazis, traditionally the perfect villain. On the right. It is a binary file. As if we couldn't [00:44:00] let these people continue. On the right. Like you have to stop them. So that's good. But also on a, like, again, not to be weird, but on a philosophical note, you, I wouldn't put it anywhere.

I wouldn't send him to war. Like it would work in World War I in Vietnam. It wouldn't have mattered. On the right. Because anyway, quotes, no quotes, your war is obviously World War II, you know, people have been pointing out that it's kind of a just war, right? How, it doesn't matter. Learn how confident we are in the truth of our cars, like defensive lawsuits fighting on their own.

it's chaos, right? Like war, like that kind of violence and that kind of [00:45:00] existence. pure chaos. On the right. And chaos and bytes, all these different things. On the right. And, but how, and that's why I had to leave. This is because they are beings of chaos. They are people beings who thrive on chaos. Chaos is where they thrive.

On the right. and we as humans

Jeff:Don't thrive on it

Eliot Rehal:Chaos. In the way we don't like, prolonged chaos is untenable for a human person. And that, and that's why I put them there, because then you can ask everyone, chaos comes out. They're similar, and violence and war like that and that kind of hate, like, you know, it creates a storm within and without.

And that's why I put them there, because that type of storm is the perfect coverage. On the right? Like it allows you to hide in plain sight [00:46:00] in a way that I think serves the plot and also serves them as characters. On the right.

Jeff:And, and I think the other thing that I found interesting and the significance of, I think the Nazis are me, I feel like the Nazis are the only group of people you can go to.

Yes, I'm ready for the vampires. You know what I mean? I mean it is. I mean there is only one group. You can say yes, vampires are monsters, but at least they aren't the fucking Nazis. Know,

that there was a CR, apparently there was a crossover, a Captain America. Batman's crossover issue and did not have a joker and was associated with the red skull. And there's a moment at the start where he's genuine, yes. He realized that the red skull is a Nazi. He's like a son of a bitch. He could, he could be a villain, but at least I'm not one of those, those people, you know, and even the joker had to fight the Nazis.

Even the joke I bet is that at least he wasn't a Nazi. And I found that very entertaining about vampires. At least they aren't.

Eliot Rehal:Well, because when you think about Joker characters [00:47:00], the whole Joker is messy, evil, right? It is a nihilistic creed, true. And in a Nazi, evil is legitimate.

Like the Nazis, everything is as they are, they are, they are armed, controlled, mechanical, evil. And what is so scary about them. And like, you know, the Joker could hate Batman, or he could hate Captain or Erica because they represent institutionalism. The flip side of this is that the Nazis also represent institutionalism.


Eliot Rehal:other side of it.

Jeff:Well well. And Emily, how did you feel, how did you feel to know that. Yeah I'm doing a draw, kill some Nazis here I like, do you like the violent aspects of war? Did you like more fancy, you know, like drawing Cuba and things like that?

Emily Pearson:Y.

It's, it's interesting. Because it was: sometimes [00:48:00] I really enjoy trying the gore. And then sometimes there are moments like, oh, I have to look up like someone's head is going to explode today or something.

Jeff:how that.

Emily Pearson:It is not interesting. I feel like. Like you never expect to draw like Nazis or anything like that when you're like an artist, so it's like a new experience in that sense. But you know, honestly, it was fun going through the scenes in Cuba because I think that whole sequence was like, it's a fight that's happening all at once.

No, it was fun putting that down on paper. Just random, so random, like vampire attacks and so on.

Jeff:Well, well, I think one of the things that makes the cover of number two absolutely wonderful. And I want to say that it is also a beautiful cover edition. I love the contrast between the life and personality [00:49:00] of Franklin and the love life of Lost and Fanny, how did you come up with the design for this cover?

Emily Pearson:Thank you so much. It was, I looked at some things like WWII, like Era, movie posters, and I just saw, like, it's got a lot of all of that Detective Newark, movie posters also look the same wherever you want. The tall shooter or the tallest person on the bill is like the handsome Holden.

And then you have all the different movie poster formats of all the other characters. I think I think it was a lot of fun trying something like that. We have a few different cover leads in the other issues who like movie posters or just different things in the time period.

I think it's an easy way to immediately show what time frame the problem is in.

Jeff:Well if it's you

Eliot Rehal:if you are

Jeff:Is working on your covers an argument with Elliot? Do you somehow do your own thing [00:50:00] and decide for yourself what the essence of the problem is? Do you read the number first and then, you know, I want to represent what that number represents on a cover, how do you design it?

Emily Pearson:Es.

So I think I did all the covers after finishing all the issues. I think so. Yes. And like everyone, I would just talk to Elliot and our editor, Jasmine, and say, okay, these are my sketches. And then everyone decides what to do. We'd all like it and then I'd go ahead and have a thread color and yeah, it was pretty.

Like, you know, show a few different options, then figure out what's the gray area of ​​everyone.

Jeff:Yes. And I would definitely say that your art is so beautiful. I mean, even violent topics look beautiful on this site. And again, as I mentioned, what a problem as well, and it starts once again in Cuba, you make Cuba look extraordinary.

It's the most exuberant [00:51:00] what kind of again, just like I asked you when you were in Chicago, again, how deep did you dig for Cuba or for these scenes?

Emily Pearson:Oh, not too much, honestly. I feel like with something like that, it's like with something like the fashion they wear, the outfits are the whole problem.

So I think there's a little more research on the same thing to make sure it's consistent, but with that, with something like Cuba, it's the same. You are her most of the time, but you only see the environment for a few pages. So I think it's a little less research for something like that.

It's just, you know, they're both the same. Just look at some photos on Google or Pinterest and see which ones are disabled for you.

Jeff:So for you, is it the details that count or is it the feel that counts when making a particular panel?

Emily Pearson:I'm not sure. Maybe a little of both. I think it's, I think there was one thing that I can't remember who said it, but... [00:52:00] Just like with any ordinary food panel, whether it's writing or driving, you want to get the thrill of the action and, you know, whatever, the learning or the dialogue for each panel. And I think that's exactly what I'm thinking about as I go panel by panel to create a page.

Jeff:So how many numbers are there? It is planned? It will be an ongoing miniseries.

You said five numbers. So how far along are you two in creating it? There are no five finished problems.

Eliot Rehal:It has been done? I, I do subtitle changes like, you know, but that's it, I

Emily Pearson:Think Tweed, are there other problems? I think I think it's mostly done now. Yeah.

Eliot Rehal:Yes. I mean, when I say it's done, I'm saying I'm done.

Yeah. I mean, I think numbers four, five haven't been colored in yet. And I need to take a look at number four and I just sent some changes to the letters of [00:53:00] three, what is it, do you know how many of those numbers you've read?

Jeff:I, I, read the first two.

Eliot Rehal:OK. They do not land in Cuba. Nice three I think.

If I'm not wrong,

Jeff:The first page of number two, you're like, the first two pages or at least the first page happened in Cuba. I think maybe it's just Felix. But if. It's yes, I read it. I read the stories yesterday so I'm pretty sure Cuba is also on the front page of the issue.

Eliot Rehal:yes, but

Jeff:Well yeah, definitely feel free to check it out. I mean, I, yeah, my memory is nice, like I said, it was yesterday, so I'm probably done.

So once all five issues are done, is it set for future series or will it be, or all five and done?

Eliot Rehal:Well, I mean, this, this, this series is written to stand alone. However, I know it's equivalent and I'm dying to suggest it. And like, you know, they're [00:54:00] just, you know, they basically tell me, yeah, we like it.

But I didn't tell you about that, Emily. I'm going to tell you now, basically how, let's wait, we'll wait until you know, trade paperback and, and how it works, what it is. Hold Oni's course for us. But I always try, I've been trying to dig in and say, oh come on.

Come on. Come on. But book publishers are slow people, and they definitely have to be happy to roll up a newspaper and punch me in the nose. So

Jeff:It's hard for both you and Emily to be in this situation you're in. Honestly, you have these plans that you want to do this other book, this other series, the next one maybe at the same time, you can build your future life based on what might happen.

What I'm saying is that it becomes a planning problem.

Eliot Rehal:Yes. It's a challenge.

Jeff:I as soon as more for the artists? Because I think writers can have various [00:55:00] problems. Artists, as Emily said, have to. Yeah,

Emily Pearson:I guess I mean it depends on the situation, but I think most people are most editors and writers and it's all pretty sympathetic, but like we all like it.

Any presentation that's been discussed with people takes anywhere from six months to a year to get to the point where, you know, like it's available. So I think most people will understand if you need more time. For example, if you say I'm in the process of drawing a book and something like advanced SQL will be picked up.

It's like, okay, well, can we do that after I finish drawing this book and you know, like I haven't met anyone?

I haven't met anyone. It's like waiting.

Jeff:What can readers expect in future issues from one vein after another? After her, at three, four or five

Eliot Rehal:You try to know love, death and decay.

Jeff:And you, Emily? Can you give us some head [00:56:00] on some of the great art to look forward to?

Emily Pearson:Well, I can say that you should improve the look a bit because I'm improving it, but it's essentially the same style, same type of themes.

Meeting. We will see more reliable changes to the time periods in future editions. I think the first one that stayed, was it the same as 15 years or something? So you either get more support or move on.

Jeff:So, just before I let you go, is there anything else about you or a project you're working on that you'd like to quickly contribute to?

Eliot Rehal:If it comes next week, order my new Aftershock Comics book. beat her up

Jeff:dead Fantastic. And you, Emily?

Eliot Rehal:No

Emily Pearson:I think I really have something to get out.

There is a Vault project.

Eliot Rehal:i'm not sure you haven't

Emily Pearson:it really stuck in my mind. So follow Elliot's book.

Jeff:Fantastic. All [00:57:00] correct. Thank you so much.

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